Oh boy oh boy oh boy!!
I was one of those mad nutcases who went out and bought a second fulcrum (this means that I owned one to begin with) mere minutes after the insider spoiling the battle engine CID was released.
I do not regret it.
A quick summary of the new rules for those who have yet to see or are not part of the CID forums:
Increased boxes to 30.
Gained the ability to leach Fury from construct beasts within 5 inches during control phase.
Gained Fury Vault
Gained Veteren Leader [Blackclad] - other Blackclad models in its command range get +1 to hit on every kind of attack roll.
Suffice to say, this is awesome.
Since Pagani has expressly asked that the battle engines be tested on SR 2017, my opponent and I rolled up The Pit II and used the Cluster terrain method. Again, anything for CID is going to be in a different font.
Krueger 2
- Loki
- Megalith
- Woldwyrd
- Woldwyrd
Celestial Fulcrum
Stoneshaper (proxied by a Blackclad so I didn't have to go rooting through my models)
Gobber Chef (proxied by a Mannikin, same reason)
Shifting Stones x2
Druids and CA
vs:
Rhyas
- Proteus
- Scythean
- Neraph
- Seraph
Shepherd x2
Nyss Warlord (proxied by a Legionnaire)
Hellmouth
Swordsmen and CA
I won the roll off and opted to go second. This seems like the only way to win SR 2017 on Scenario, and that is 100% what my list is about.
Legion turn 1:
Pretty simple. Occultation goes up on the Hellmouth and everything runs up.
Hellmouth Tentacles move to max command range in the left zone, and I give up any hope of scoring in it.
He moves his beasts up cautiously, probably to screen them next turn with the Swordsmen.
Circle turn 1:
I jokingly inform my opponent that if I wanted to, I could have my Fulcrum about 3 inches away from his Seraph this turn (Run 10 into stones, port 8, TK 2 more).
I start off with Apparition on my Druids.
I then premeasure a cloud base to base with the forest, check to see if Druid #1 can walk into it from where he is, and do so. I measure 1.5 inches from the edge of the cloud I have pre-measured, and then check to see if Druid #2 can advance at least that far. He can, so I move him up until he is 1.5 inches away from the first cloud.
I pick up the 3 inch ring, move it over the second Druid, and repeat the process two more times.
It takes me probably two full minutes to make a 4 man cloud wall with these restrictions as opposed to the 15 seconds it would have taken before - plop down 4 AOE 3s, check to make sure a Druid can walk to the middle of each one, and then move the models.
Krueger activates, TKs Megalith up and casts Windstorm before advancing to just behind the cloud wall.
Megalith TKs Loki and Tramples, Loki runs to just outside of getting charged.
The Fulcrum runs up, followed by Shifting Stones and a Stoneshaper.
The other unit of Stones forms a triangle around Megalith and Loki, meanwhile both Wyrds rile and run.
Legion turn 2:
My opponent decides to jam me up with Swordsmen this turn, running them up at me as far as he can with the forest in the way.
Rhyas swaps Occultation onto herself and goes to just behind the left zone.
Scythean goes to block LOS to her and be a scoring threat in the left zone, and the Seraph moves into the middle zone to contest.
His Neraph chills out in the middle zone along with Proteus a bit farther back.
His first Deathstalker is able to get range to the closest Druid, needing nines. He pops him off, Swift Hunters to the next one and hits him, also needing nines. Yayy. That's 10 sit ups I have to do ><
He passes the turn.
Circle turn 2:
I leach five fury with Krueger and 3 with the Fulcrum (ahhh that felt good).
Apparition happens, and then I spend a solid 20 minutes deciding if I can go for an assassination run this turn.
With only one proxy base, I can measure where Krueger can get to, and I verify that the Druids can get LOS to the Scythean to hit it with a KD spell and knock Rhyas over.
What I CAN'T do is check to see if Telekinesis will get the Scythean out of the way enough to Gallows Rhyas, check to see where Loki can land with Shifting Stones and where Rhyas would have to be in order for him to be inside Stealth range to hook her, and see if that is within walking and shooting distance for a Woldwyrd.
I spend 20 minutes going over the distances again and again, and my opponent and I cannot verify anything. I've got the one proxy base out, my fingers marking various arbitrary points that I *think* are where distances would end up at, and in the end, I decide I just cannot try it.
This is a great example of where not being able to premeasure gets rid of any risky plays - if I could premeasure all the bases out, I would probably have gone for this. Instead, I wasted 20 minutes of sitting and staring at a table muttering to myself about possible eyeballed distances. If I could have set down 4 proxy bases, I could have laid it all out with my opponent and verified distances in a matter of a minute or two, and we both could have been spared the experience. 20 minutes of sitting there staring at me was much worse than the five minutes it would have taken for both of us to Interact and Discuss the distances involved before coming to an agreement.
Instead, the Fulcrum aims and kills 8 Swordsmen and a Shepherd. (Insert Evil Laughter)
Druids move up and KD Rhyas and the Scythean anyway, and Loki toes the edge of the Shifting Stone triangle he is in to hook the Neraph over.
He leaves it on a few, the stones port him into the right zone, and Megalith moves over to finish the beast off.
Krueger moves up, TKs a Wyrd up, FEATS and clears the zone of everything but the Swordsmen CA. He puts up Windstorm once I verify that every single thing my opponent has cannot get to me.
The Wyrd moves up and blasts both Swordsmen down, the other scoots over and kills the last Swordsman.
I score two points, and thanks to a contesting Druid, my opponent scores none.
Score 2-0
Advantage Circle
Legion turn 3:
Everything except one Deathstalker, the Warlord, and a Shepherd has -2 Speed this turn.
My opponent kills off all but the Druid CA with Deathstalkers and a Seraph, clearing his zone.
The Scythean dances around outside my threat ranges, but contests the middle zone. Proteus half kills my Wyrd.
We both score.
Score 3-1
Advantage Circle
Circle turn 3:
The Fulcrum pulls Fury from Megalith, Krueger from Loki.
I take a free strike with my Wyrd, which kills it.
The Fulcrum gets teleported over Loki by the Shifting Stones and then softens Proteus up, doing about 15 damage to him.
Loki moves up, hooks him, and kills him.
Megalith tramples up and TKs the Seraph out of the zone. The Druid Overseer pushes the Scythean out of the zone, and I contest with Shifting Stones.
I roll a little hot and destroy his Objective with the Woldwyrd, and Kreuger dumps fury and RUNS AWAY.
From here I feel the math gets pretty basic - My opponent will trade his Scythean for Megalith, and then Loki, Fulcrum, and Krueger will clear the middle zone repeatedly to let me win on Scenario. I score 3 this turn.
Score 6-1
Advantage Circle
Legion turn 4:
Sure enough, the Scythean charges in and kills Megalith.
The Seraph shoots down the Gobber Chef and the Druid, and the Hellmouth Tentacles kill the contesting stone.
We both score again.
Score 7-2
Advantage Circle
Circle turn 4:
Krueger "allocates" Fury to the Fulcrum, which half kills the Scythean. Loki hooks him and kills him, but I cannot clear the Seraph.
I do contest once more and score again.
Upon further reflection, I think we miscounted the score, and I should have won this turn.
Score 8-2
Advantage Circle
Legion turn 5:
My opponent clears his zone again, and we both score.
Score 9-3
Advantage Circle
Circle turn 5:
A quick TK on Loki allows him to run and contest both zones, scoring me another point and putting me up by seven? I think so. Oh well, I officially won on this turn.
Score 10-3
Victory for the Druids!
Post-Game Thoughts:
Scenario: This felt a lot more like a real Scenario, far more than Spread the Net did. The game was much more urgent feeling than the previous one, and I felt like it mattered.
That being said, I only won once I had destroyed almost everything my opponent had on the table, and the game went for nearly the full two hours on the clock. I think that, in the interest of keeping event lengths reasonable, winning at 5 more than your opponent and ending on turn six might be more appropriate.
Measurement Rules: I cannot express my annoyance with this enough. I spent probably half of my game time staring at the table and muttering to myself about threat ranges and Stealth and placement, NONE of which I could verify with my opponent. Instead of plopping three or four measurement bases on the table and quickly checking ranges and placement with my opponent, I spent 20 minutes completely in my own head and not interacting with my opponent at all. I believe he took a phone call, got some food, and read some random stuff on Facebook while I was doing this, and it literally did not matter.
Also, the Druid wall was incredibly frustrating as I was still able to DO what I wanted to do, it just took 5 times longer than it should.
If there must be a limit on measurement markers, I HIGHLY recommend moving it up to a range of 3-5 at once, else it slows the game down and makes it less interesting for both players. I haven't gone into the tank like that since Mark II, and I did not miss the feeling.
Celestial Fulcrum:
This thing feels amazing now. Just being able to consistently boost damage is strong, but being able to load up Megalith EVERY turn and then pull fury off of him without worrying about Kreuger was incredible.
At the same time, I also felt extremely vulnerable as it still dies to a charging heavy, which I think is a good place for it to be. I think Privateer Press might have nailed this one on the head in one go, I wouldn't change anything about it.
Out of curiosity, did you start playing in MK3?
ReplyDeleteDefinitely didn't, 100% played the crap out of and terrorized with haley 2/haley 3 and others in mark 2
DeleteAh; NOW I understand the changes to the premeasurement rules. That does seem annoying.
ReplyDeleteI think the measurement marker change will hit some factions more than others. Circle is one that will feel it worse. I have not had a single issue since the CID started.
ReplyDeleteCircle is going to go through a crippling 3-4 months as we try and wrap our brains around how to play in a world where our threat ranges are easily avoided or mitigated and our traps cannot be measured, as well as a time where the Scenario packet definitely disadvantages a faction built around hard hitting beasts that die to lights. We don't have good infantry, we don't have beasts that are capable of going toe to toe for 7 turns straight, and that's going to make the faction very difficult to play competitively.
DeleteIts hard to explain why I disagree with your assessment of the measuring rules without coming off as preachy, but Ill give it a try.
ReplyDeletePrecisely that you COULDNT measure the perfect assassination is exactly why I feel its needed.
I don't want the game to come down to a math puzzle. You assess the situation, on a time limit, and either make the safe play or take a risk and see what happens. With your 20 minutes of mulling things over, did you come close to clocking yourself via times SR2017 rules?
Simply put, I feel the skill of judgement and threat/distance assessment has be severely hampered from Mk2 to Mk3 and this is a small change to bring it back.
However, thank you for the pictures and the in depth batrep
Here's the thing, I got it close enough that I realized I needed a 3+ on a Gallows pull, and called it there. But instead of that decision taking me 3 minutes and quickly verifying with my opponent, it took 20 minutes.
DeleteIf there is going to be premeasuring, it should be absolutely unrestricted, or at least much less restricted than it currently is. I certainly don't want to go back to winning games because I can eyeball nonlinear things on multiple models better than my opponents can, and I don't want to sacrifice accuracy to avoid conflict, which will happen again. The game is SO much friendlier and more affable when both players can quickly grasp the intent and critical measurements involved and agree in or out.
As for clock, no, I still had 13 minutes left on my clock at the end of the game. I stopped looking for openings and just played for attrition. If I wanted to play a massive slugfest in the middle of the table, there are MANY other games I could go play. Warmachine has ALWAYS been a game of battlefield tactics, and taking a step away from them is a mistake.
I was of a similar opinion when premeasuring was introduced in mark 3, but I quickly came to accept that it was a tool that only increased your ability to play the game on a higher level. Being able to access pieces of that whilst simultaneously being denied the ability to play the game at the edge of what you can conceive is extraordinarily limiting.
I will continue to advocate that this rule either be removed, altered to be more permissive, or for people to ignore it should it become canon. I have spoken with many other TOs about this, and we all agree that it will make running events harder, less friendly, more stressful, and place a higher burden on the TOs.
This rule reduces the level at which the game can be played, fosters arguments, conflict, and anger between players, and should be removed before the SR 2017 CID is finished.
Do you think if the rule was changed to you can premeasure whatever during a models activation but at the end of actuvation you have to pick it all up in order to prevent playing the turn with proxies then magically teleport to the 20 proxies on the board?
ReplyDeleteModel activation? No. Unit activation? Maybe.
DeleteI think I'd be okay with 3-5 measurement markers, that'd allow for some interesting ideas but still not let you do your entire turn.